Strike deadline looms for GO Transit workers
The Canadian Press via The Star
A Sept. 19 strike deadline is looming in contract talks between GO Transit and the union representing its workers.
Amalgamated Transit Union Local 1587 President Ray Doyle says a strike will “most definitely” happen unless there’s a wage increase.
Doyle says GO has offered a zero per cent wage increase over the next two years.
The union has applied to the Ontario Ministry of Labour for a no board report, which starts the clock ticking toward a possible strike.
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77 comments:
Are wages the only condition or are there other factors behind the possible strike? e possible strike?
Well, crap. I heard about this briefly on the radio this morning and my uncaffeinated brain didn't register it. I wanted to stay away from Presto for as long as possible. Like until they quit making the paper passes.
It really sucks for those college students who commute into the city for their classes on the GO. They have the chance of a double-whammy.
Alrighty has a slightly different take on the subject: ttp://www.torontosun.com/2011/08/31/go-transit-strike-looms
It sounds like it may just be the bus drivers that will be on strike, not the train conductors.
The trains can run but there would be no one at the stations to sell you tickets so a strike would affect everyone's commute. They can't run trains without an operations centre - sorry.
I suggest people begin to think about and prepare for alternate methods of getting to school and work.
Offering no increase in wages isn't fair but it shouldn't be reason for a strike IMHO
This is where unions take advantage of the people before them, the workers who fought for unions to ensure fair and safe working conditions and competitive wages. GO offers all three to their union but people just get greedy and foolishly exercise the right to strike causing resentment and chaos. Look at auto workers, there's a reason why people are unsympathetic to the woes of that industry. $45 an hour to install rearview mirrors and still, it's not enough.
There are alot of innocent people that will be affected too.
I know alot of Go workers do not want the strike as in these times a strike could cost them their houses etc.......
Why would we want to get Presto? If there is no one selling the tickets there is no one cheking them either? Am I missing somehting???
if there are no people selling tickets, then we should NOT be expected to have a ticket.
I would gladly fight that in court.
While I don't like strikes either, the offer of a zero wage increase is not right. All workers should get at least a cost of living increase, otherwise your wages are taking a step back.
A monthly pass buys you travel for the entire calendar month.
Presto deducts fare on each day you travel so you pay as you go. Why pay in advance for travel with a pass if you can't ride after Sept. 19? So if you're a pass holder, you may want to consider Presto for the month of September and save yourself some cash in the event you're stranded. This way you can afford to pay for taxis, gas and parking if you choose to drive.
I don't think GO can operate without operational staff even if you have a pass. Who checks it? What about people who don't use passes but buy daily or use 10-rides?
I also don't think GO would offer the system as a free-for-all if there was a strike. Let's be realistic here ...
Or you can just buy a 10-ride. I just wrote Presto because it's what I use. But if there's no strike, then you've got to buy 10-rides for the whole month, forfeiting the discount of a pass. Presto, if there's no strike, would also calculate the discount.
how about you assholes just wait tile there's a strike before causing mass panic and hysteria?
Agreed! Thanks for ruining my fucking morning. We come to the site to laugh not for GO updates which aren't even set in stone.
BRING THE FUNNYYYYYYY!!!
@rob: I hardly call reccomending an option tat lets you hedge your bets "causing mass panic and hysteria". A presto card means you pay no more than a monthly pass if there's no strike, and less than a monthly pass if there is a strike.
The Bank of Canada has inflation at 3.7%. I think raising wages in line with inflation is reasonable. If my employer raised my wages by anythign let, I would make it clear that I would consider it a pay cut.
The union in questions covers everyone except on-train staff. (Who are supplied by CP for the Milton line and Bombarider for all other lines). Siganlling is controlled by CN, CP and TTR, so the trains would still run in the event of a strike... it's just no-one could buy tickets (except from TVMs).
(NB: I always think people employed by a union should be not paid during a strike, just like their members).
In the event of a strike, wouldn't a GO monthly pass holder be credited for the amount of time that it couldn't be used? That way you just apply the amount to your next monthly pass? I'm hoping to avoid PRESTO until I absolutely have to get it.
typoe... I meant "If my employer raised my wages by anythign lesst, I would make it clear that I would consider it a pay cut."
I'm curious what some of these GO workers actually make, I bet it's a pretty good buck. I wouldn't be happy with a zero percent increase for the next 2 years but if it meant keeping my job I'd shut the f*#k up and start looking for something else if it pissed me off that much.
I am soooo sick of the union mentality!!
AND if the trains are running (as I understand they would be), I am riding for free if there is no one at the station to top-up my Presto card (I don't trust the online thing).
Oh yeh . . . and TomW, I don't know anyone who has gotten a 3.7% increase the last few years. I'd be happier than a pig in shit if I got that!
I agree. Boo-fucking-hoo at them getting no raise for two yrs. Be thankful they have a good paying job! And lmao at getting a raise equal to inflation!! I work in a big law firm that makes millions and we've gotten zero across the board and measly increases the past few years and nowhere near 4%. I'm just thankful I have a good paying job.
damn! I bought my pass yesterday. If the buses go on strike all you bag and foot riders on the train better shape up.
LOL @rob
Mass Hysteria?
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Jesus Christ, listen to some of you!
This is a site about GO trains. A strike is a perfect opportunity for fodder.
Last time I checked, anyone working for a transit system in Ontario wasn't living in a double-wide in some trailer park. Oh to cry for the poor union worker. Up til 2008, Oshawa had the richest middle class sector in the whole country. Go take a look at Oshawa through the north end. Union jobs = big house.
@purple rain - AND C.J. wouldn't have this site/blog if she worked 10 minutes from her house. Obviously people are gonna talk about a pending strike.
Anyways, I doubt it will happen. GO Transit is owned by the government (well, at least the majority owner is MetroLinx and when I last checked they are a Crown agency) and do you honestly think that Daddy Dalton is gonna let this go on longer than a day with an election just a few weeks away???
@Iswgirl13 You make a good point there (in regards to McGuinty)!
@Anonymous said...
RE:Last time I checked, anyone working for a transit system in Ontario wasn't living in a double-wide in some trailer park. Oh to cry for the poor union worker. Up til 2008, Oshawa had the richest middle class sector in the whole country. Go take a look at Oshawa through the north end. Union jobs = big house.
I have a family member that works for GO and he cleans the stations and is not paid big bucks but works hard. He is also considered part-time. He would be affected by the strike and could lose everything if he is not working. so lets be clear... not ALL union jobs=big houses!
He would lose his small house if this happens!
8.36 anon, you know a lot who don't want to strike? The strike vote was 95% according to the press.
As for their wages, the top wage for a GO bus driver maxes out at $29/hr accordng to the Star.
Perhaps we should ask management at Metrolinx what their increases were this year. I bet it wasn't 0%. Heaven forbid they give a cost of living increase to the people who do the actual work of getting us to work....
Give into their demands, fares go up.
Don't give into their demands, service goes down and fares will go up to make up for lost revenue.
Lose/lose either way for the poor peon taking GO.
$29.00 for driving a bus (plus benefits I'm sure), yep, I know people with a university degree making less than that, so again, you don't like your situation, change it!
I don't begrudge anyone putting in a honest day's work but there is something really wrong when someone driving a bus or working the line at Ford is making more than say, a teacher.
Hmmm, 116 Metrolinx employees on the Sunshine list for 2011 (making more than 100k)- and they can't give the union cost of living increase? WTF?
To the people who argue that having a job when others don't is an acceptable reason to lower your pay and standard of living. Just because some people are unemployed DOES NOT mean YOU need to degrade the value of your employment. You are just allowing the big companies to get away with cost-cutting measures to earn a bigger profit. Which in turn devalues your entire respective industry and hurts not only you and your coworkers but future hires as well.
SO STOP WHINING about how certain employees shouldn't go on strike based on the fact that they have a job.
Why do people always freak out about what management makes? No, they don't always deserve it but there is no way an autoworker (sorry, it seems like I'm picking on them) should make $75,000.00 PLUS a year.
@Won't Settle for Bollocks:
You sound like a union hack. The issue is not the they have jobs and/or not have jobs.
The issue is that it is unskilled/very low skill labour with a high school diploma demanding the same pay as a someone who put themselves through some sort of higher education and makes a lot less in both pay and benefits.
They, like the auto workers, do not deserve an increase in pay (and for the College strikers) job security, when the private sector people do not have that nor want that.
@Squiggles
So if you're going to complain about what people make, why don't you start with sports players? How much education do you need to be a baseball pitcher or hockey goalie?
I have never complained. I have stated my opinion and that of other I have talked to about this.
I don't pay attention to sports or the money the players make. But I do know that they are also part of a union, which have been known to strike. I have been known to mention that Hollywood actors (actors guild, another name for a union) make way too much for the crap they churn out. It is the same concept as what has been mentioned above but on a larger scale.
However, Dan Garcia, that is not what this discussion was about. This discussion is about how the union associated with GO is about to put thousands into a very uncomfortable and possibly expensive situation so that they can make $30/hr and not $29.
@Squiggles
You caught me, I totally am a union hack.
You do bring a very valid point to perspective which I am too tired to argue. End of the day, you know. But when all is said and done, I don't want a factory full of pissed off auto workers building my car. ;)
Squiggles, I think Dan Garcia is clearly missing the point. And although SOME athletes and movie stars make ridiculous sums of money, nobody pays to come and see me work.
People deserve a fair wage and more important, what the market will bear, for their work but for so many unions/federations they hold the public hostage until they get what they want. For example, that mess with York University a couple of years ago . . . some students had to pack in their year and start over because they couldn't wait in limbo any longer.
@lswgirl13:
I was caught in the college strike in 2006. I almost lost my entire year because of that. I almost wasn't able to graduate from High School because the teachers were threatening job action. A really stressful situation as I was filling out the final registration papers for University at the time.
@Bollocks: if a pissed off worker built a car improperly, guess what would be returned and if there was any personal injury from that car, the company sued.
Everyone has an off day. I do. What I do not do is let it affect my work as it would lower the quality of the product I work on and it would put my company at a disadvantage and the repercussions could come back and kick me in the gluteus maximus.
People in the private sector earn their accolades based on merit. People in the public sector (and I include all unions in this even though CAW is not a public sector union) gain their accolades based on seniority. They could show up everyday, do a half-assed job and expect a promotion because they simply showed up for 10+ years.
Well said Squiggles but 2006??? GOD, I feel old!!!
My ex used to work at Stelco in the summer and the things he would see. I remember the lifers told him to slow down, he was gonna make them look bad. These guys would sleep on their shifts and take turns as the lookout. He said it was the best incentive to go to university.
@lswgirl13: Thanks! and I did the college thing as a mature student. It sucks that they consider "mature" at 25, but it is what it is.
I find that at the union's heyday (any union) did wonderful things for the west in getting Maternity leaves, ending child labour and normalised work hours.
However, they have now outlived their usefulness. Their only duty it seems is to drain money from the economy, the company and in the end, the workers. The Union leaders get substantial paycheques, yet many employees are merely drones or are treated as such.
I have heard many stories like what you Ex told you. It is one of the many reasons why I have turned down jobs because they force you to work in a union and I have too much of a work ethic to deal with that and my conscience.
For the record, the top wage for GO's bus operators is $27.95/hour, and has been since 2008. That equates to $55,900 per year.
GO's top rate is LESS than TTC's top rate ($28.57 in 2009, higher now) and also less than Mississauga Transit's top rate $28.53/hour in 2009, higher now).
Driving a bus is not "unskilled" labour. Unskilled means anyone could do it with no training. I would bet none of the union-bashers here could drive a GO bus round corner without training.
Further, driving a bus means you are responsible for the saefty of yoru passengers.
As for those people who work in the private sector (like me) and who haven't gotten pay raises... why does that mean no-one else should? Just because your company is mean or has done badly deosn't mean everyone else should share in your misery.
GO has increased the number of passengers it's carried every year, so it is a success. The workers play a part in that success, so why shouldn't they gain from it?
@TomW: yes, they are unskilled. The only qualification they have is the Driver's Licence they carry. It is not like they had to pay tuition for 3 years to get that licence either.
And I do not believe that the drivers played any role in the increased traffic. The people needing/using the service does so for a variety of reasons, none of which is because they want to use GO.
Even at the top-out fare of $27 they make more than University graduates in many fields. For example, some of my friends, with masters make around 35,000 a year. If they top out, it is for 70,000 at the end of their career.
TomW: I believe that some people have qualified their statements with adding "low skilled" labour with high school diplomas. I did. I consider it a low-skill job.
I do not begruge people for asking for more money. But it should be on an individual basis as well as merit-based. Not because people were forced into a corner by a group of bullies thinking they deserve a raise.
Wow CJ
I think you hVe a lot of fodder foa another survey.....
Bloody iPhone and imperfect fingers. Ignore the typos pls
Anon 11:58...be careful with the 95% wanting to strike statistic. It doesnt include ALL employees, just people who showed up to vote.I used be a teacher. We had a strike vote. In order to vote, we had to go and sit through a 3 hour union meeting at a hotel downtown. You could only vote after the meeting ended. They closed the doors as soon as then meeting started. If you were late, you couldnt vote. If you were running an after school program and couldn't go, you couldn't vote. The people who make these meetings are die hard union members.
Stephanie
Ok!! here it is from an actual GO employee. If we strike Union station will be closed. Parking lots will be locked, No cleaning services and above all NO BUSES!
ps. Bus drivers make $30 and hour plus benefits, stations attendants a little less. Service people $24.
In terms of voting. we voted by mail. 98% responded (mailed in vote) and 95% voted for strike.
Supervisors make 80k plus managers 100 k plus. Anymore questions.??
yes, here's a question.
what makes you think you all deserve a raise?
exactly. you make FAR more then the average canadian and its only because its government owned.
$55k to drive a stupid bus?? are you kidding? maybe i'll buy that 'B' license book at shoppers drug mart and get my 'skills' to be a bus driver.
$80k and $100k for supervisors and managers?? this makes me sick.
such a waste of money in this province.
do you have to have a masters or even a degree to get a job like that? or just know someone who works there, or know how to blow haha.
Go transit is embarrising to this province and a shamefull waste of taxpayers money.
F*&^ those workers, they do NOT deserve a raise, they are already making too much for what they do.
How could Union station close - doesn't via still run?
@ANON - August 31, 2011 6:42 PM
If Union Stn will be closed then trains will not be running I assume or at leasst not stopping at union?
Ahhh - good point skin man.
Yeah go doesnt own Union Station
If anything the main GO concourse could be closed. I doubt that would happen because it would affect the food service people who work there as well as the construction people who are helping with the revitalization.
Just do not see Union being closed. See the individual stations being closed, but not the parking lots as many do not have barricade unless that is where the strikers will congregate.
In all, this will probably be a moot point. Dolton will either A) not let them strike or B) legislate them back ASAP because it will affect his voter base.
Here's something to think about: if we made the bus driver earn $15.00/hr because he has "no skills" so to speak, then perhaps he has to take on a second job to support himself and family. Now, during summers between school years, I was working two jobs @ 60/hrs per week and I would NOT want to be driving a bus full of people in that state. I was tired ALL the time and almost cut my finger off at work at one point from being too tired. So you can imagine the results if a GO bus driver is in this situation, always tired and having to deal with customers, traffic, etc. Being a bus driver may seem like unskilled labour to you but at the end of the day, they were responsible for driving a lot of people safely.
@Jen - I said the same thing about Dalton in an earlier post, great minds!
And anon@6:42, even if an GO employee said Union Station would be closed (and we all know it can't), this is just the union talking. They feed their members a bunch of crap and they believe it.
Ohhhh and of course the support workers at the colleges are now on strike . . . don't get me started!
@whatever, what if it was $20/hour at $40K per year, on your own your alright, if you have a family, spouse needs to work. If spouse can't work, don't have a family.
The alternative is that people need to lower thier standard of living to that which is enjoyed in other countries in which they have families with low incomes....we've seen this movie before and we know how it ends.
Makes me laugh. Bitching about the reason for striking ie more pay is a red herring. those who are bitching are bitching because the strike will effect them. If the workers were asking for more vac time people would bitch about that too. Get a grip people. The strike is a bitch because it will inconvenience us. period.
@ Anon2 said "yes, they are unskilled. The only qualification they have is the Driver's Licence they carry. It is not like they had to pay tuition for 3 years to get that licence either."
A skilled job doesn't always mean a degree... (carpentry and plumbing spring to mind). If driving a bus was unskilled, anyone could do it without training. You try driving a bus round a corner without any training, and you'll fail.
Also, I'm sick of people who say "I'm better qualified and I don't earn as much". If money is so important to you, why didn't you become a bus driver? If you don't want to be a bus driver (and I know I wouldn't), then that means the higher pay is because it's a less desirable job.
The strike would inconvenience over 200,000 people a day not to mention the affect it would have on some business who employ those people and the random day/weekend traveller who just wouldn't bother coming into the city. GO Transit is one of those services that needs to be deemed "essential". I've experienced a GO strike before, it was a royal pain in the ass!
Skin Man - couldn't agree more. If you make $25,000.00 your lifestyle should reflect that, and so on. Let's not forget that the core reason behind the recession was the simple fact that Americans had it drilled into their heads that EVERYONE should own a piece of that American dream with the white picket fence. Sorry, but based on salary alone, WalMart greeters shouldn't be living next door to a doctor.
@TomW:
I am sick of people in unions demanding more and more for no reasonable skills as well as acting like bullies to get more than those with skills.
You also need to pick your examples better. Carpentry and Plumbing are skills. And those in that career path have gone to school as well as apprenticed to gain those skills. A bus driver has a special licence and spent a couple of days in a classroom and a few hours driving practice. I mean the Truck Driver training industry churn people out in 2 weeks. Buses are not any different.
People go to school/ apprentice/etc. to earn more money, yes. But they also do it because they want a career, the respect and to do something with their work ethic. Someone sitting at a counter all day does not deserve the same pay as a doctor. They deserve to be treated with courtesy. But they do not deserve to earn 27 bucks to do that job.
This strike--if it happens--will affect more than the 200,000 people that use it everyday. There would be a ricochet effect with the lives of each individual that is inconvienced. For the parents with kids in daycare, they may end up paying more in fees and penalties, for employers because not everyone could work at home during this time, so the employers would need to replacement workers is the individual couldn't make it into the office. There is more, but this would not effect just the riders.
Squiggles - were we typing at the same time??? hahaha
If saaaaay, Metro workers went on strike, no biggie, I'd just shop at another grocery store. We don't have that option with GO Transit so the employees know they have the commuting public by the short and curlies in order to try and get what they want.
I love this blog!!!!!!! Silly and serious, kinda a like sweet and sour.
CJ many thanks!
We deserve a raise because that is the way industry works. As the standard of living rises our wages must keep up.
I clarify. Union station ( the building it self will be open) but GO personnel wont be there to help you. Also if we get legislated back to work, a mediator will be appointed. The mediator will impose a percentage raise every year for the next 3. That is better than what GO is offering ..Zero %!!. So, you see the logic for a strike....???
@Anon 1.37:
You do NOT deserve a raise because of how the industry works. If you deserve one it is because you earned one.
The union mentality is strong in that one. It would be pretty hard to strip the brain-washing out of you before you can re-join the real world.
The standard of living is going up for everyone, yet one would be hard-pressed to find the salaries of most jobs going up to reflect this in our current economic climate (recession, US dollar going down, fuel and food prices going up, companies trying to cut costs and outsourcing/offshoring).
If the private sector can put up with a pay cut and still get by, the public sector can too.
I've been one of the lucky ones these last few years where when lots of others were faced with layoffs and cutbacks I continued to get a raise, albeit, nothing to write home about! I just LOVE how people think they are "entitled" to a cost-of-living raise each year.
Squiggles you are so right about the union brainwashing. It's even spread to a good chunk of the teaching profession and I have 3 immediate family members who teach but when I listen to the bitching and complaining I challenge them to find another job where they get 13 weeks off a year. Of course, I'm always reminded they are a "federation" and not a union . . . ummmmmm, okay.
@anon 2:14
What you said. I am always frustrated when I see comparisons by public workers to other public workers. That person is over paid, therefore I should be equally over paid.
I think that all unionized employees should have their wages adjusted according to the movement in wages enjoyed, (or suffered), by small business employees.
This would have a tempering effect in organizations in which there is no effective business model, (i.e. government) - b/c there is no insolvency threat.....except in greece, oh and Italy, oh ya and spain and portugal, wait a minute lets not forget Iceland, and Ireland....hey who can remember when Russian defaulted....who wants to bet how long it will take for our US cousins to tank.
Punishment for greed - but I will admit not entirely should the blame rest at the public services feet, but as it is the lion share of the govt costs come from that group.
Fortunatley in Canada we are not in that position. Public sector employees fail to take into consideration the massive stability benefit they enjoy b/c the employer is almost certainly going to be there, (thinkging Eatons, Nortel to name a few), when assessing the total compensation.
This brings up another question: Where's the riders' pay raises to afford the higher prices of taking the GO? My standard of living costs go up each time GO/TTC fare does.
Should I go to my employer and demand them to give me a raise because it costs me more to take the GO or TTC to work, or pay for gas to get there?
If you had a union you can the demand a pay increase.
Stop worrying about how much GO employees make.
If you think we are over paid and " I don't make that much" crying... Well, get a job at GO.
Squiggles.. Islgrl stop crying. Get at job at GO.
Hey anon - No thanks, I'll still make more than you and besides I would never be part of a union. Ohhhh but wait, according to you, I could then "demand a pay increase". Yep, typical union mentality, all about demands.
@ Anon,
Nope. I enjoy my brain and my morals too much to join a union. I do not make that much now. But I will. Then I can take pride in the fact that I earned based on my work ethic and determination. Not because I put in my time.
Squiggles - I think we might be long lost relatives!!!
Like everything else, there are crappy teachers, lawyers, doctors, receptionists, salespeople, etc. so don't wanna paint everyone with the same brush because there are people that are union members that are hardworking individuals. BUT, IMO unions instil a certain mentality into their members where they feel they are entitled to big salaries, benefits and job security no matter how they perform on the job.
lswgirl13:
Indeed, and if anyone in the union doesn't agree or goes against that mentality, they get singled out as not a team player or ostracized, even if they are right. Not a good thing if you're in the job for the long run.
In simple terms . . . bullying.
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